[MELISSA]: The Bomb Mom podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts, that are making the world better. You’ll also probably like the Imperfect Thriving podcast, Beta Male Revolution, and Empowered and Unapologetic podcast. Check them out at www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. Hey, what’s up everyone? If you’re looking to be inspired, motivated, educated, and entertained, you have come to the right place. Welcome to the Bomb Mom podcast, the podcast where we explore your fitness, life mindsets, and actions that help you become unstoppable. You’re worth it and it’s time to finally make changes in your life that will last you the rest of your life. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Bomb Mom Podcast. I am your host, Melissa Vogel, and we are back with segment two with Veronica Cisneros who is our amazing, and loving, licensed marriage and family therapist, motivational speaker. You guys got a piece of her, now we’re on part two. She helps you step outside of your comfort zone and she’s amazing. She wants you to be your best. She’s like the most incredible, empowering and unapologetic female ever. And you guys have to check out her podcast too, because it’s empowered and unapologetic. So, make sure you check her out. Veronica, we are so happy to have you back here. [VERONICA]: Hey. Thank you. It’s been years, it’s been years. [MELISSA]: It’s been so long. So, you guys make sure you go back and listen to the first interview that we had with her because you don’t want to miss out. And we’re gonna be talking about some things that we talked about in the first one. We’re just going to kind of like expand a little bit more on it because the first episode we talked about you know, extremes, and food, and self-sabotaging, and the emotions attached to it, and just romanticizing food in general. And she hits so many good points and I do not want you to miss out. But, one of the things that we talked about was the extremes you know, going from like, “Oh my god, but eat salads every day. I’m gonna be so good.” And then the next thing you’re like fucking sitting on the floor in your closet eating like chocolate doughnuts and jelly beans. Oh my god, that sounds amazing. And you like drop that you’re, you’re like contemplating your entire life’s decisions up to this point. You’ve gone to the complete other extreme, and Veronica was talking about the middles. What’s the middle, you know? And she talked about, you know, the four steps. So, if you guys want those four steps, you have to listen to the first podcast. But, during that while she was talking about it, one of the steps is like discovering going to these extremes and why, how it’s impacting your life, actually was the second step there. I gave you the second step. You got to but why, you know, like how is doing these extremes, like impacting your life. And Veronica, you talked about a story and if you can go back to it and fill us in more on it and talk about this process, because I think it was huge and I think a lot of us women have been there before. You were in your closet, and you were literally trying to find ways to get your husband out so you could change because you didn’t want to be in there with him. Share that with us. Because I think there’s so many of us, myself included, where it was like, I was at this point in my life where I didn’t want anyone to see me, like, I felt ashamed, I felt like just disgusted with myself. And I’m like, dude, if I can’t even look at myself in the mirror, no one else is gonna want to see me or have sex with me or you know, like all these stories I was writing. So please, please, tell us about that experience. Give us more. [VERONICA]: Of course. So, my husband is, was, he’s retired now, a marine and even though he’s retired, he still has a nice ass body. Anyway, I digress. And I’m sorry, I got a little too excited here. [MELISSA]: Calm down, take a drink of water. [VERONICA]: Calm down, bring it back Veronica, bring it back. All right. Well, so that’s the thing. My husband, you know, he takes care of himself. He eats, right. He does the things. And so like, it comes so easy to him because he’s been trained to do this. However, I have not, you know, I’ve not spent so many years doing this exact same thing. So, when I decided to go on this mission of “I’m gonna eat whatever the hell I want,” well, all of a sudden, my clothes stopped fitting me. And so, I remember walking into the closet, and like dreading it, because here we are getting ready for date night. And, you know, of course we’re in a hurry because we’re late. And Uber is about to come and pick us up, you know, and so the kids are coming in my husband’s you know, saying, you know, hey, I’m ready, you know, whenever you’re ready. And I remember just falling to the ground and like just crying, like, totally crying and thinking, “How the hell did I get here?” And I’m looking at all of my clothes that I think, you know, or like, night-out clothes and it’s like, well, there’s no way in hell, I’m gonna fit in it. There’s, there’s no way, like, it’s impossible. And so, like, even with a girdle, even with whatever the whole, you know, corset. [MELISSA]: What did you just say? [VERONICA]: Yes, I said girdle. Like all of the things, like, even if I wore all of them at once, there’s no way any of my clothes are gonna fit me. And I remember, like, just feeling, just feeling defeated. And, you know, my husband would pop in and I just start yelling at him and just create this argument because I’m still in my clothes. And he’s like, how are you still in your clothes? And it’s like, dude, honestly, like, get out. Get out. I’m trying to figure out what I’m gonna wear. You know, and I totally throw it on him. I reverse the script. And it’s like, it’s your fault because you’re telling me the only time I get ready is for my friends, I don’t get ready for you and it’s like, no, BS, I don’t get ready for anybody, you know, and I’m in there, and I’m just really, really struggling. And I noticed that it was not only when I was changing, it was also when I was intimate. Like, being with my husband again, there’s some intimidation there, you know, and even though, yes, my husband loves me for me, yada, yada, yada, all those things. At the same time, that’s not, that’s not the voice that I hear in my head when I’m on, you know, when I’m being intimate with him, and that’s not the voice. Instead, it’s like, “Uh uh, instead of being you know, on top, like, go back on bottom,” you know, because you’re feeling disgusted and, you know, “Oh my God, I left the lights on”, and I have to come up with some crazy, you know, idea why I need to get up. You know, like, while we’re in the middle of it, like I need to come up with something really, really good. In order for me to stop, turn off the lights go back like I have to, it has to be something good and it’s like all of those things were in my bed, in my head. In my bed, I was trying to get into my bed. [MELISSA]: It was happening in your bed [VERONICA]: It was happening in my bed. And so, it was all of these insecurities coming up for me and ultimately, you know, I realized, well wait a minute, I don’t feel worthy, and I feel completely insecure. And because I feel insecure, I don’t want to be intimate with my husband, I don’t want to have sex. Can we just cuddle with clothes on? You know. [MELISSA]: And in the dark. [VERONICA]: Pretty please. [MELISSA]: With the dog in between us? [VERONICA]: Why not? So, you know, maybe a kid, who knows but just like, like just something and I remember him holding me and it’s like, I would like position myself and move in certain ways. So, it was like you’re not I’m going to say lonjas, that’s Spanish for love handles. But I would do that. I would like twist and turn and it’s like, oh my God. It was like this constant. You know, I was just being fidgety. And even you know, Willie would call me out and say, “Wait a minute, like what’s wrong? Like your head’s not into this?” Right? It’s like, oh no, it is however, my, I want this, however, I’m, you know, all this negative self-talk. Yes. I’m like, like, if you only knew what it was taking me to perform at this level right now. [MELISSA]: And they don’t even care, they don’t even care. [VERONICA]: No, they just don’t give a shit. They could not give a shit. No. [MELISSA]: It’s all in our head and what’s going on? I love that you’re talking about this because like so many women that I talk on the phone with and do interviews with and stuff. And that’s one of the things they talk about is like, oh, he says, he loves me, you know, he wants to have sex with me and like, you know, yada, yada, yada. But there’s always this big button to pause and then usually they start crying. And they’re like, yeah, I’m not comfortable with myself. You know, like, I don’t want him to see me like that, even though I know he probably doesn’t really care, but I can’t get comfortable. So, I think that this is just a topic that like, needs to be discussed more. And so, I love that you’re bringing it up and like how did you overcome that? Like, how did you even become the Veronica, you are now? You know? [VERONICA]: Absolutely. I realized that this didn’t just pop up out of nowhere. Like, you know, I like to think about this question, you know, who is the person that you’re trying to get acceptance from? Who was that person when you were a kid? You know, who was that person when you were a kid? And then think about who’s that person today? And when you’re met with constantly disappointing, when you’re met with never meeting up, well, again, it turns into this internal dialogue of I’m not enough, I’m not enough. And so, we don’t do any of the things that we want to do. And we don’t do them because we don’t feel like we’re capable of doing it. And so, it was, it was literally me saying, “Okay, wait a minute, enough!” Like this is way too much. You know, I’m trying to be intimate with my husband and it’s impacting me and I’m trying to, you know, get dressed and I can’t. Well, yes, yes, I can say and everybody else might say, well, “Damn, dude, it’s your fault. Like, you know, let go of the donuts or let go of this.” Well, yeah, that’s, that’s easy for you to say. [MELISSA]: Yeah, super easy. [VERONICA]: Right, however, understanding why, like, why is this happening? Why does, why do I turn to that? And so, for me it was really diving deep. And, you know as part of my own personal work, with me really paying attention to, okay, why do you not think you’re enough? Why is it so, why are you so quick to do all of these things, even though you know you’re going to be in this closet next week or next Friday or next month when there’s another party, there’s another kid’s party and there’s another event happening, why do you do this? And I realized, holy moly, every time, every time I self-sabotage, I’m also exposed to this level of shame. And that feeling hurt so much, that feeling hurt so, so much, and I don’t know what to do with it because nobody’s ever taught me. And so maybe, maybe I need help, maybe I need somebody else to go ahead and teach me, somebody else that’s not going to judge me. Somebody else that I felt safe and confident with, right. And, you know, I ended up reaching out and I remember, I remember reaching out to you, Melissa, you know, and it was having that honest conversation with, you know, “Hey, this is where I’m at, I’m doing all of the things,” and, you know, yes, I’m a therapist, yes, I teach. I train people how to do this however I’m struggling with this. Right, you know, and, and thinking about it, it’s like, okay, well, I’m struggling with this, and my clients are struggling with this, and I could totally teach them, I could take them there, I could do all of those things. But there’s something interrupting my process and I need to be even more educated with how I actually take action. And even though there was those steps, you know, it was, it was being able to go ahead and trust, you know, trust the process and trust even trusting you that you were going to help me get to where I needed to be without feeling, without feeling ashamed. You know what I mean? [MELISSA]: Yep. Bingo. And that’s, that’s the thing too is like, no more shame, like put it to an end. And, and that’s hard for women to let go. Yes. Like, and like you said like, because that shame is it’s comfortable, like it’s familiar, I shouldn’t say comfortable, it’s familiar, you know, people like consistency and familiarity. You said before too like, who are you trying to get acceptance from? Or who were you always trying to get acceptance from, from a kid? How much does that come back in and play a role in this, you know, and, and allowing someone else to come in and help you and move forward from that? [VERONICA]: Oh, God, it plays a huge role. It plays a huge role because that’s part of that negative self-talk. [MELISSA]: See, and I don’t think people realize that at all. [VERONICA]: Yeah. No, 100%. It’s part of that negative self-talk in “I’m not enough.” And so, you know, we call this, in the clinical world, you know, distorted thoughts. And so that those distorted thoughts, we believe that they’re facts. Yeah, we believe that they’re 100% true, and there’s nobody that can argue it, right? And most of the time we’re, you know, what we call overgeneralizing catastrophizing minimizing. And so, with those distorted thoughts, we tend to go ahead and run with them, and believe them, and again, hold them as 100% true. So, when you’re able to go out and challenge them, well then that negative self-talk turns into something completely different. Because yes, I can say, you know what, I’m not enough. Yes, I can say, you know, I’m never going to be you know, whatever goal I want, I’m never gonna achieve whatever goal I want to achieve, because I’ve never done it before. You know, and I’m, I’m never going to go ahead and live the life I want to live. Well, that’s, that’s bullshit. And it’s bullshit because you’re saying you’re using the word, never right? And never is for the rest of your life like this is a moment, this is a very, very small moment. And who knows what next week will look like, none of us can determine that, none of us are even in control of it. And so, if we could take a step back and really pay attention to that negative self-talk like, “What am I saying? How am I catastrophizing? How am I making something small into something really, really big? How am I fortune-telling?” You know, well, I’m fortune telling, because I’m saying it’ll never happen. So, now I’m setting up the rest of my life to look this way, which is impossible. It’s impossible. I don’t know what the hell’s gonna happen. You know, I don’t know if you know, in three months, or however long it takes to run a marathon, I’ve never run one. But you know, I’m just saying, I don’t know, I have no clue. So why would I do that? Well, again, that’s because that’s all we’ve known. And so being able to go ahead and step out of our comfort zone, because of where we’re at because of how we’re feeling because of how it’s impacting us, provides us with this sense of empowerment and, you know, and in this addition to that, we become unapologetic in that I’m not going to ask, you know anybody, I’m not gonna ask my husband, I’m not gonna ask my friends for permission to do this, I give myself permission. And because I give myself permission, it’s a choice that I’m actually making. And so, helping women understand that this is a decision you get to make on your own, like you get to decide. And I know all of these things, you know, the sports and, you know, your schedule and the house and the dog and, you know, your neighbors’ kids, I know all of these people depend on you, I get it. However, that’s a decision you made. And you made that active choice to go ahead and be that busy and invest in everyone else. You get to, so the same thing applies, you get to make an active choice to do something different every single time. And I got tired of doing that, you know, now, lights on it’s happening wherever, however, like let’s just go. And same thing with the, same thing with the closet, like it’s, you know, I won’t go there. [MELISSA]: Try to keep this Disney rated, PG13. [VERONICA]: PG 13. But it’s just, you know, there’s this level of confidence and am I 100% there? You know? No, it’s something that we’re going to constantly work on. We’re human. You know what I mean? There’s no level of perfection and something I’ll work on for the rest of my life gladly. Gladly, because I’m constantly evolving, and changing, and growing. But like you said, like, you get to make that choice. Just, I think that was huge. That was like, I think light bulbs probably went off for, like, so many people listening, like, it was your choice to be busy, it’s your choice to undo it. It’s your choice to identify the negative self-talk and that’s power. You get to choose, like, and that’s fun, that’s exciting. That’s, you know, you get to let go and release that and move forward from that. And that’s, that’s huge, and I don’t. How, okay, here’s I know what a lot of people are questioning because a lot of women are currently listening to this and going, how, like, how do I make that choice? How do I give myself permission to do that? Without feeling the guilt? [VERONICA]: That’s a great question. Well, I’m gonna ask you, what is it costing you? What is it costing you right now? Right now, what is this costing you to live this way? Is it costing you your relationship? Are you really connected with your husband? Or do you just put on a mask? You know, are you really connected with your children? And I don’t mean like, connected like you play with them. I get it. You play with them, you’re a great mom. You’re a great mom already. However, are you emotionally connected with them? Are they able to come to you and you’re able to go and listen versus fix? Are you able to truly be in the moment or the minute you hear the word “Mom”, you cringe and you’re ready to just run away? You know, are you up in the middle of the night, you know, thinking about the, you know, the five tasks you didn’t do and beating yourself up over it because you completed 1000, but those damn five tasks, you know, I didn’t get them done. And I have to wake up and I say this often, you know, most of the time we wake up to the checklist, we’re slave to the checklist, because that checklist provides us validation. Five years from now, if your life was to look like this, would you be happy? And so that’s going to help you answer the question with what is it costing you? Because it’s costing you a whole hell of a lot. And if you’re not doing anything to change, well, guess what? This is going to be exactly how it is. This is going to be your life next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Yeah, in addition to that, another question I like to ask women is, how is it benefiting you? And this is where I lose a lot of women because they’re like, okay, wait a minute, Veronica, no, it’s not, didn’t you just hear me? I just told you all the reasons, you know, that it’s what it’s costing me and you know, how it’s impacting my relationship. You know, I hear this not only in my private practice, but I also hear it with women that I coach. And it’s like Veronica, it doesn’t benefit me, I want to get rid of this, help me take it away, like, let me be done with it. And it’s like, okay, well, let’s, you know, if I was to take it away from you, like, let’s just go ahead and I’m gonna give you something that most people are now aware of. You know, let’s say I’ve had people in my private practice saying, you know, Veronica, I’m experiencing anxiety, like, take it away, take it away right now. I’ve had clinicians tell me, you know, that I’ve seen that are my clients, Veronica, I already know the routine, I already know what to expect, or I already know how to do this. Okay, I’m having anxiety, let’s jump, let’s go. You don’t have to do the whole, you know, the lights and everything all right, let’s just jump to it. And it’s and I’ll reply with, you won’t let me, you won’t let me there. It’s not that easy. You won’t, you will literally fight for that damn anxiety. You know why? Because it’s benefiting you in a way and when you’re ready, and I take this approach with my with the people that I coach as well when you are ready. You will get to a place where you’ll realize you don’t need it anymore. But I can’t take it away from you. Because you’ll fight me. However, we’ll get to a place, right? We’re going to place the way this is going to work is you and I are going to work together, we’re going to identify and explore what’s happening. And then in that process, you’re going to start to, you’re going to start to see how it’s benefiting you and how it’s protected you. It’s been this double-edged sword, it’s protected you and it’s also caused great harm. You’re going to be able to identify that right? And you’re going to, you’re going to be able to see, well wait a minute, I get to stay in this familiar routine. I get to do the same things I’ve done before and I don’t have to experience pain. Because when I’ve experienced pain, I didn’t know what to do when there was nobody there to help me. And that’s where I say, okay, well, hello, I’m doing it with you. And then we go through that process and we go through that process together. In therapy, it looks way different than it does from coaching, right? We’re going so much deeper in therapy. In coaching, we’re taking you through this process and it’s goal-oriented. So, what do I need to do right now what step, both are goal-oriented, however, again, this is it, the level of severity is different. And so, what do I need to do to take this next step? And, okay, so it’s benefiting me, here’s how it’s benefiting me because, again, this is all I’ve known, it’s familiar. And I know how to react if anything goes wrong. The other path, it’s uncharted territory. And I’m scared and although I do trust you, I don’t think you understand how scared I am. And so that’s why we walk it together. And we, you know, the same thing with your community, you know, we, I have a community where it’s, it’s us women going through it together and there’s support. It’s this non-judgmental environment, where we get to go in and speak our truth out loud, and it’s through that journey that change really happens because we’re being honest with ourselves. And we’re treading lightly. [MELISSA]: And this is the coaching that you’re talking about. There’s therapy and there’s coaching. So, okay, because I know people are like, wait, what, what does she do, I want to be part of this. How can they be a part of this coaching with you? Where do they go? Like, how can they join this group? [VERONICA]: Well, so I have the Facebook group, which is a free group, and that free group is focused on you know, we’re just kind of treading lightly, you know, and just kind of seeing what this is all about. Yeah, and like you know, bingo, we’re just in a community of women and, you know, we’re doing challenges, we’re doing, you know, we’re just starting to recognize that things aren’t the way we want them to be. [MELISSA]: Okay, what’s that free group? Tell us. [VERONICA]: So that free group is it’s in the group section, it’s Facebook/groups/empoweredandunapologetic, right? That’s the free group. However, to take it even further. [MELISSA]: Yeah, I want, like, the one, I want the real coaching one, I want to know more about that like, like, free’s fine, like everyone should join free but, like, I think the listeners are gonna want to know like, you know, really, I really want to get I want to find out how this shit’s benefiting me that’s like negative, and I don’t need it in my life, you know, and what does this cost me? I want to dig more in how can we coach with you to do this? [VERONICA]: So, we have a VIP group. So, in the VIP group, we create a personalized plan for you where you want to go, we explore your goals, we talk about your insecurities, and we go through it together. And you attend live coaching calls, you’re hand-selected an accountability partner and all of that’s on a private Facebook group, so nobody has access to it. And also, that’s, I believe you’ll go ahead and include that in the show notes. Yes, the link to this membership. [MELISSA]: Yes, we’ll put that in the show notes for sure there. If they don’t know how to use podcasts, they’re just listening and they’re like, I don’t even know what show notes are, how can they get ahold of you? How can we find you? [VERONICA]: This will be on my website empoweredandunapologetic.com. And you’ll see this big red button that says, “join the VIP community”. And there you go, you can sign up for your membership. [MELISSA]: Perfect, because I think once people start listening to this and really diving down of like, you know, like, holy crap, she totally described me, like, that’s my relationship, that’s my marriage, like, and this is costing me things that I don’t want to admit. Like, you know, like, I’m doing bad things that are benefiting me and not in a good way that hits home. Like that’s hard to, like, I’m holding on to this terrible action, these terrible thoughts, because it still benefits me and it’s not a good way, you know? [VERONICA]: Absolutely. And I want you guys to think about it, too. I love, I appreciate that you said that right now. I want you guys to think about it, you know, instead of good and bad, think about it as is this healthy or is this unhealthy? You know, before cuz if we could look at it that way through that lens, then we’re able to make a decision a lot quicker and it’ll be a more, I don’t want to say a more educated decision, but it’ll be a decision that will actually last. [MELISSA]: Yeah. It’s not so much, it’s not like bad good. It’s like healthy, not going to help me be a better person, not help me be a better person, right. Bingo. So, you guys, you have to know that like, you don’t have to go through this alone. You can reach out and get coaching. Like maybe therapy’s not your jam. Like maybe you’re like, no, I definitely need more of a group environment. I need coaching. I want to work through this stuff. You can get ahold of Veronica, you can be a part of Team Busy to Bomb Fit Mom. Like you don’t have to go through this stuff alone. And you know, it’s really cool. Doesn’t matter where you live. You don’t have to live by us. You can work with us, no matter where you live. That’s really one thing I love about technology. [VERONICA]: Absolutely. [MELISSA]: Absolutely. Oh Veronica, I’m so glad you came back on with us today like this was just, I think, it was even better than the first one. Like it was awesome. Like, thank you so much for sharing all of this with us and tell us how else can we find you? Are you on social media? [VERONICA]: Yes. So, you can find me on Instagram @empoweredandunapologetic. And the same with Facebook as I gave you guys, earlier, it’s the Facebook group is Empowered and Unapologetic. So yeah, it’s in the Facebook groups, facebook.com/groups/empoweredandunapologetic. [MELISSA]: Perfect, if we’re going to search those words, “empowered and unapologetic,” we’re going to find you seriously. Like we’re going to exactly we’re going to find you. Oh my god, make sure you find her podcast you guys and listen to her empowered, empowered, empowered, and unapologetic. I love it. Oh, thank you again for coming on everyone. Make sure you rate and review this podcast. Make sure you check out the show notes. Make sure you check out the email course because we are here to help you. We’re here to help you keep going and if you watch and listen to Veronica’s podcast make sure you rate and review that too, every little rate and review helps us. Alright, Veronica, thank you so much for being on here. Any last words for our listeners? [VERONICA]: Get that shit done. Lean into the fear. Let’s go. [MELISSA]: That’s right I love it. I love it. All right, you guys have an amazing rest of your day. And as always, you could be a bomb mom, it just takes that first step and taking action. Alright, have an amazing day goodbye. If you’re ready to become a bomb mom, join my free course over at www.melissavogelfitness.com/course. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, nutritional, or other professional information. If you need a professional you should find one.