[MELISSA VOGEL]: The Bomb Mom Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice podcast network, a family of podcasts that are making the world better. You’ll also probably like the Imperfect Thriving podcast, Beta Male Revolution and Empowered and Unapologetic podcast. Check them out at www.practiceofthepractice.com/network. Hey, what’s up everyone? If you’re looking to be inspired, motivated, educated, and entertained, you have come to the right place. Welcome to the Bomb Mom Podcast, the podcast where we explore your fitness, life, mindsets and actions that help you become unstoppable. You’re worth it and it’s time to finally make changes in your life that will last you the rest of your life. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Bomb Mom podcast. I want to give a special introduction to our guest today, Jen Widerstrom. She is amazing. And if you don’t know anything about Jen Widerstrom, you are absolutely missing out. She is a television star and your daily get fit motivator. She’s an industry leader, primarily known for her big-hearted training on NBC’s The Biggest Loser. As the fitness director of Shape Magazine and featured regular on Dr. Oz, Live with Kelly and Ryan and The Doctors, she also serves as a member of SHAPE Brain Trust. She’s also the bestselling author of Diet Right for Your Personality Type and the founder of the WiderSTRONG training tribe and method. What a treat today to have her on the show. Everyone, listen. Get your pens, your papers, and enjoy. [MELISSA]: Hello everyone. And welcome back to the Bomb Mom podcast. I am your host, Melissa Vogel, and we have the most amazing guest on today. Jen Widerstrom. Jen say hello to our awesome listeners. [JEN WIDERSTROM]: Oh, hi. And I’m just smiling because you said my last name correctly. So, I’m like already having a great day. [MELISSA]: Right? Okay. So, I have to say every guest that I have on, I slaughter their last name, but yours, I know. [JEN]: You nailed it. [MELISSA]: I totally nailed it. No, it’s been pretty bad. It’s been really bad, but we just keep it. I’m like, “Yeah, I just slaughtered your name. That’s fine. We’re going to keep it and not edit that out,” because that’s just how I roll. You guys, Jen is like one of our top leading females in this industry and to just have her on, oh my God, we are like so blessed. I’m so grateful, Jen taking the time out of your day to be here with us and all of our bomb mom listeners. Like thank you. I can’t thank you enough. [JEN]: Oh, I mean, sincerely you’re welcome. Honestly, I felt honored to be on it because I feel like I’m cool, but I don’t know if I would consider myself the bomb and I’m also not a mother yet. So, I felt like this, I get to go behind the curtain of a world that I haven’t quite been led into it yet. So, I’m pretty thrilled. [MELISSA]: Yes. And you know, and it doesn’t even matter. And we have so many male listeners too, like it’s, which I think is cool because health fitness, it just applies to everyone, you know? [JEN]: Yeah. Well, but motherhood too, I mean, I was really interested just to talk to you and I’m listening to your podcast more just because, I mean, I’m going to be 38 this year, but I’m, a lot of my friends have already walked down that aisle of marriage, children, and building. So, I’ve had a lot of experience and just the same, I hear the same thing with every single one after their first child. Like why don’t more women, like more moms talk about what’s going on, like your body, the pregnancy. My friend Kelsey, I’ve known her since college. I just thought, you know, this is obviously pre-Corona, but like I had five moms in public. I’m like, “You, I get it. Hey,” you know, because it’s such like a, it’s such a neat community, and fathers included here, but like it’s just a whole different planet and universe that you know, I’m excited to kind of get dip my toes into further. [MELISSA]: Yeah. It’s a world that you can’t really describe and explain it to someone until you’re like up to your eyeballs in the madness and like the shit show. It’s a little crazy, you know, and everything’s been just so different now in adapting and you know, honestly the gym and getting away, like that’s my stress relief. Like that’s my huge break. And it’s been taken. It’s already taken. [JEN]: That’s one of my pillars whenever I’m working with somebody or working with the client, whether it’s remotely or on their training or one-on-one a lot of times they’re like, “Can I do it at home?” I’m like, “You could, but I don’t recommend it. I want you leaving your house. I want you changing your environment. I want you putting different pants on.” I want you, you know what I mean? [MELISSA]: Yes. [JEN]: Like, you know, there’s just something that comes with leaving the house and giving yourself your environment that I think it lends itself to the stress relief, the time for you, et cetera. So, it’s been, I’m actually interested to see what you’ve been doing and what you, you know, personally through it all, but anyway, it’s the anchor that we need to find a way to keep. [MELISSA]: It is. It is. I’m so glad you said that because that’s one of the things when I talk to women and they’re like, “Oh, I want to work with you. Can I do everything from home?” I say the exact same thing, “You can, but are you going to have like three kids crawling on you? And that’s awesome, but it doesn’t really do a whole lot for you. You need that time away.” [JEN]: Well, and by the way, and I have zero kids, I have a bulldog and there’s not a lot of conversation there. And me leaving the house, like I need to leave. I need to go. And I have nothing interrupting my day. I could, I don’t know, like build a plane to the moon here because there’s no interruptions. [MELISSA]: Right. [JEN]: But like for me there is something about the physical, the geography change, the intention, the thought process. Even like I did brush my teeth, right? No, I didn’t. Okay. Let me get that done. You know what I mean? There’s a series of things that the double is real self-care, interest in yourself, time, you know? I mean like feeling in my eyebrows, like brows, eyelashes and lips. I never leave the house without those three; check, check, check. [MELISSA]: At least, yes. [JEN]: So anyway, it’s an investment of you when you leave the house. So, that’s kind of my piece on that. [MELISSA]: Yeah. Do you have a routine like when you get to the gym or like everything you need? Like for me, I have to change my shoes. And everyone kind of laughs at me at my gym, because I’m the girl who like walks in, I go to my corner, first thing that goes on is my headphones and then I change my shoes. Like I have a pair of shoes that I wear in the gym that like don’t touch pavement, you know? And I change my shoes, like no one messes with me and I’m like the girl that sits in the corner and changes her shoes and then goes to work. Do you have something that you have to do? [JEN]: You know it’s funny? So, I don’t, my shoes touch the pavement, but I always, it could be a hundred degrees out or one, because my home was in Denver. I always wear them to the gym. So, I do have the shoe change process. So, as you said that, but it’s like, but I think mine starts at home. It’s like I braid my hair, I care about the clothes I wear. I could go to a gym that’s empty. Like, one of my gyms in Denver, it’s a 24-hour gym so you just have an access code and like, no one sees me, but I kind of put on my battle gear. [MELISSA]: Yeah. [JEN]: I mean, so no matter if anyone sees me or not, I think the process starts at home of this kind of like getting suited up for whatever it is I have to perform that day. [MELISSA]: Yeah. Yeah. I totally have like legs day leggings. [JEN]: Oh girl, are you kidding? No, no, no. I have leg day underwear. I always, I tell myself, I put the power on like when my energy’s low and I’m like, “Oh.” I’m like, “Where’s the bright yellow? I need the yellow today.” And so literally I have a thong that I wear in a leg day. It really helps mentally. [MELISSA]: It’s does. It’s like this Arbor you’re strapping on. Oh my God, I love you for saying that. [JEN]: That’s the truth girl. [MELISSA]: So, give us a little bit of background really quick. You know, just like, how did this become your world? How did you get into real health and fitness? [JEN]: You know, it’s funny. It was all an accident, because for me, like I grew up in Chicago. My parents were both teachers, administrators, and then coaches at a high school level. So, we were always brought up with kind of movement in our life, but it was like chores. We have a garden plot, like to this day, my parents are in their seventies and they still grow their own vegetables. So, I was like carrying pails of water, pulling weeds. And so, I always did sports and eventually when I went to college, I did, I went to University of Kansas, Rock Chalk, Jayhawk for anybody out there where I did hear hammers throw. So, when I was first introduced to movement, it was more physical labor. Like, you know, you [inaudible 00:09:04] so kind of a thing. It was sport for performance. So, again, I guess those are two hand in hand. And then I stumbled onto American Gladiators, which is how I started in television back in 2008. And frankly I had enough muscle that I lifted in college that sustained me through some couple of years of bartending downtown Chicago. And I was just on a, like, you know, on a StairMaster sweating off the hangover from the night before and Optimum Nutrition asked me to do a photo shoot, like a test shoot for them. And I was like, “This is weird. They want to take, I’m not a fitness model.” And but I got to tell you, I won the genetic lottery and I had good muscle development. I always have and I’ve trained for a long time. I started in sports when I was seven. So, fast forward to, they take the photos and I’m on the side of their shipping trucks. I’m on there and like Muscle and Fitness and Flex Magazine, like holding a barrel of protein. And that’s how American Gladiators found me. But once again, my looks were, my fitness, I should say wasn’t fitness. It was tied to a performance and outcome and look. And so, I never worked out for health. There was always a different end result that occupied my purpose behind it. And so, when I moved to LA for the show and then the show got canceled is when I started to get into the fitness community by way of, I wanted to, I was like a greeter at this fitness studio in LA. And the owner was like, “You really should be teaching classes.” I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no, no. I’m not, no. I just want the free membership so I can sweat off the hangover. Like that was kind of my system.” And what I realized is when Mark [inaudible 00:10:51] is his name, he believed in me and he let me shadow him. And I started to teach and I was really nervous. I started with like between one and three people coming to my class, but within a year I had over 30 people. And what I started to realize was, this was so much more than in my case, sweating off a hangover or crash dieting for a photo shoot or the waistline. I saw the way people changed in the 60 minutes I had them. And it was courage in the way they chose their weights and sets. It was, you know, eye contact became better over the weeks of the course of the time I got to know them. They would go maybe to like, you know, whether it’s a Lou Lemon or like the Lucy’s and all that stuff. They brought a brighter pair of tights or a brighter shirt and you just started to see the evolution of the human. And of course, their body changed. Like the body’s the easy part you’ll be able to show, but like owning it because you’ve earned it and you really walk with people through their health. You realize you’re not helping them get ready for a big event or a wedding or lose the baby weight. It was about we’re moving such bigger rocks in their lives. And I think for me, fitness became this gateway drug, really helping people step into who they are. [MELISSA]: I didn’t know that teaching like that was part of your background. I swear to God and — [JEN]: Oh yeah. That’s me, I’m group fit girl. [crosstalk]. [MELISSA]: I am exactly the same way. And you know, you don’t get to see that transformation in people. I don’t think people have an appreciation for that unless they’ve lived that role and work worked with women like that and — [JEN]: Well, it’s funny too, because I started in group fit, not in personal training. And you just see, I mean, I would teach the 6:00 AM’s and the 6:30 PM’s. Those were my classes girl. So, I was at both ends. So, I could see, I got the groggy and tired, sleepy, or I got the worn out and tired post day. And so, I had to find this emotional way, like this ocean wave that would kind of solely draw them out, draw them out, create this beautiful wave, and then by the end, whether it was music, me, or my programming, I got them in this wave and they could feel themselves change, you know? And it’s exciting. It’s a really fun way if you’ve never taught, if you’re a teacher or if you’ve never participated. If you’ve never done a group class, it’s a wonderful experience. And you’ll find there’s something, there’s secrets in that, that you’ll only know if you get, if you go. So, anyway, I mean, that’s how I started in fitness. And then the big elephant in the room is like, that’s how I ultimately got on Biggest Loser. I mean, I had no intention of getting back on TV and frankly the show would ask me to replace Jillian all of the three of the last time she left. And in the first two times, like, “You’re not right for the second time.” They’re like, “Nah, we’re going to go with Anna Kournikova.” And I was like, “I don’t know.” You know? And in the third time it ended up working out and so that’s how Biggest Loser happened, which were obviously, they get this waterfall of exposure opportunity to reach more people and touch more lives and really decide what do I have to say? What is my point of view here because now the world is listening? [MELISSA]: Right, right. And that’s when everyone fell in love with you, honestly. Like this chick is real, like she’s hard, but she loves like, and I think that’s one thing that made me fall in love with you as like a trainer. because it was like, you could tell she’s real. Oh my God, they didn’t just put, like, not that anyone previously was fake, but like you’re real, you’re raw. Like you can tell you have that history and that experience of firing people up, whether that’s three people in the room or you’re on the set of Biggest Loser, like, you know, with your entire team, like we saw that in you. We saw that fire in you. And that was huge. [JEN]: Thank you. You know, it was actually funny because with all this you know quarantine that we’re doing, I mean Zooming with my Biggest Loser teams and it was really neat because what you just said, like, I hadn’t heard that until Sonia Jones said it a few weeks ago and she just said, you created love and order. And I thought, “Huh?” And I always tell people, “Listen. Boundaries create value. Now, when you tell someone your limits and you let people know what’s up and where you stand, they’re going to value that. But if you don’t know where you stand, you’re going to have a hard time creating connections [crosstalk]. [MELISSA]: Amen. [JEN]: You know what I mean? And that was hard for me because I’m the middle child that wasn’t popular growing up, that was the ugly duckling that wants everybody to like her and I had to create these boundaries, but for her she’s like it was order. We needed order. We needed honesty and we trusted you. And I think that the difference was and what you saw, like Melissa, I had no idea what the fuck I was doing. Like I was like [crosstalk] Like in, you know, gladiators, I was, my name was Phoenix and I was, I said two words before a fight and you know, an event. And that was it. Like I had, the only thing I knew how to do was put my people first. I’m like, “I can’t worry about the cameras. I can’t worry about what [inaudible 00:16:09] doing. I can’t worry about anything else. This is me in my classroom. This is me with my people.” And I knew that they felt my commitment. They would invest, like in the beginning, a lot of coaching, and any mom listening and parent listening knows that you believe for the both of you in the beginning, [MELISSA]: Yeah, you have to. [JEN]: You have to and then they start to believe in themselves. And that’s the thing. So, whether it’s trainer and pier or, like Melissa and I, us both being coaches or parents being parents and really finding those common ground. Like if you know that I’m invested, they’re going to invest too. And that’s what I think really created what you saw. I mean, and it was heartbreaking. Like even I was so, Saturday night, we had like a date night with my last Biggest Loser squad and we were like bomb because there was so much footage that never aired some of our favorite memories. And I had to be like, “Guys, I get it. But it was real. It happened. It was us. So, the fact that they didn’t show, it didn’t mean it didn’t happen and I wasn’t there and you weren’t there because you wanted it on TV. We were all in those moments that were real and it was so special because it wasn’t about the show. It was about putting ourselves first.” [MELISSA]: Right. [JEN]: And so that really that’s the key through line. [MELISSA]: Was there ever a time where you got pulled aside and they were like, “Jen, now, we know you do this,” you know, like whether that was counting too loud or yelling too much or yelling enough. Did they ever pull you aside and be like, “We need to just tweak that a little bit.” [JEN]: Constantly. Are you kidding? Girl, I was in my second, I lied, first week of my second season and I was ready to quit. [MELISSA]: Oh, my God. [JEN]: I was told that like, they basically wanted Jillian again and I’m like, “I’m not going to yell. I’m not going to stand on people. I’m not going to here to belittle people —” [MELISSA]: I was just wondering that. [JEN]: And it wasn’t every producer, but there was a few key ones and I understood the fear and the pressure they were under. [MELISSA]: Sure. [JEN]: I had to believe in myself first. And I remember that night, I got rippling drunk. No, I don’t have a drinking problem guys but man, I lived down on that substance and I remember crying because I was like losing my voice. And I was like, “I have to just, I have to stand on the earth that I know and come from here.” And I will say, yes, on television or anybody that’s on any kind of through camera work, even like I’ve been coaching for free every day during our Covid lockdowns and I’m like, “Wow.” And I look back and I get to the first couple of times, I’m like, “Wow, you still look really, I sound tired.” I forget that coming to the screen, you got to be a little more up. You got to be like [crosstalk], and so I understood that note, but like I just, I mean the first day, for instance, the first big workout is always pretty horrible because you have people that haven’t moved in years ever and they really want you to hammer them down. And we’ve got a four to five-hour filming window. And I just want to say that again, four to five-hour window. [MELISSA]: Oh my God. [JEN]: That’s what we have Melissa and so for me, I’m like, I was grateful. I was like, “Okay, let’s do some warm ups. Let’s do some mobility. Let me see where your bodies’ at.” And I got pulled aside like 45 minutes there and they’re like, “When are you going to start training them?” I’m like, “This is me training them. This is me taking, you know, being safe,” because you know, you look over doll vet has got them on a 10 incline, like at a six O speed. You know, I mean his contestants would get stress fractures in their legs and you don’t need to ask me why. And I’m like, “This is part of it and it’s for television and I understand.” And my producer’s brain goes, “I get it.” He’s on one side of the exact same gym, screaming, blah, blah and they’re falling and they’re crying and they’re puking. And my team is doing like yoga poses, like I very much understand that they need that crescendo at the same time. And then I was like, “Well then make him warm up his group first like he should. How about that? Like, I am not going to deviate from what’s safe for them. And by the way, like whose contestants stayed safe? Whose contestants stayed healthy? Whose contestants win every time?” Because it’s like, they understood that I put them in front of the show and part of that, I wanted my team to see me arguing with production. Like listen to the argument, let me know I’ve got your back. So, you better step up and do good. [MELISSA]: Yeah, look what I just did for you. [JEN]: Yeah. But they needed to know that I wasn’t using them for the show like some of the trainers have. Like this was about them. So, it’s, you know, it was tough girl, but I will tell you, because I stood up for myself. I ended up earning a lot of trust and respect from those producers. So, I’m not faulting them for pushing me, but I understood, because I understood the origin of their ask. But, you know, whenever you start to give up who you are then like, it wouldn’t have been a good show and then I wouldn’t have connected with you. Like you would have been like, “That feels so fake.” You wouldn’t have connected. Like nobody would have, if I had done it their way. I mean, there’s a great scene in Bohemian Rhapsody. I don’t know if anybody’s a fan or if you know that show. But there’s, you know, when Freddy’s like, “I’m going to leave the band,” and he goes, you know, it didn’t work. He’s like, “I had nobody disagreeing with me. Nobody’s changing the beats, nobody’s changing the words. I need that pushback for a real team.” And that’s why I think I worked so well with my producers on Loser because I ultimately, like I gave the pushback that I was required to create a real authentic experience. [MELISSA]: Right. Oh God. And it totally showed and it makes so much sense now to me that like you’re a group fitness instructor. Like totally showed. I swear to God, it should be like a pre- … Oh my God, I can’t talk. [JEN]: Try it again. [MELISSA]: Prerequisite. [JEN]: There you go. [MELISSA]: Yes. I nailed it, before going on the show. Before, you know, like that should be part of it. [JEN]: Dude. I mean, that was Bob. Why do you think Bob’s the best? I mean, he started with like spin classes and step classes like that dude. Like he was always like, I remember, I think it’s, I remember he went to Gunnar Peterson and said, “You, how do you do this private training thing?” Because he had to learn because he was like us. I mean, it’s a very easy transition. You can do it but like if you don’t do group fit, you don’t know what we’re talking about. [MELISSA]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s true. That’s totally true. Oh my God. So, you know, what can we take, like, because being on the Biggest Loser and on the show, you’re kind of in lockdown, you’re kind of in quarantine. They’re away from their families. They’re taken out of their norm. Like that’s what we’re living right now. [JEN]: Yes, it’s a crazy, yeah. [MELISSA]: What are you seeing the biggest as like the biggest pitfalls that people are falling into right now with that space? [JEN]: There’s just too many blurred lines right now. So, we’re very clear that we got to be home. And so, there’s all the lines of structure around eating, around movement, around time for you around, you know getting things done. Like all those lines get blurry and listen, the first week I was in a free for all too. Like, I know my funny joke is like I bought extra food just in case we, you know, we really had a firm lockdown and of course I threw in a couple of frozen pizzas just for an emergency Melissa. [MELISSA]: Of course. [JEN]: And they were the first things I ate. I was like, “This was the emergency stash, Jen. Dang it.” It’s got fresh like broccolini and I’m like, “I’m going to do the DiGiorno with the rising crest up with cheese. Okay, thanks.” And I was like, “Okay, you had your fun.” And so that’s what I would tell you, that’s what I encourage. Like if you’ve never counted your macros, now’s the time. Like I do carb cycling challenges, and in that, like I assign macros based on where your goals are, what you want and you’re still eating all the foods you want. You get to source your macros however you wish, but you’re given guidelines. And that’s why I always joke that a lot of times, the way I coach, like it’s not a dictatorship and you choose. It’s your life. You have to be empowered to take those reps. But it’s like, we’re bumper bowling. Like I’m the bumpers and you’re bowling. Like I will get you down to getting those pins and you can do whatever you want to get down there, but you’re going to stay within my bumpers. And that’s what I think we just need to create some bumpers and guidelines, whether it’s the way you wake up in the morning, like, I am not a runner. Anybody that knows me, I hate running, I hate, I hate, I want to pick up stuff and put it down. [crosstalk]. And so, every morning I get up eight o’clock, my shoes are tied and I’m out doing a walk-jog. Sometimes it’s only 20 minutes. Maybe I’ll go up to 30. That is the absolute max although I’ll jog two minutes, walk two. Not, I’m like, you know, my heart rates are maybe 120 to 140 beats a minute. Like, that’s it. But that is like, I need that anchor because once I’m up and I move a little, I’m like, “Okay, I’m up now. I am tracking my macros with my carbs cycling to give me a structure. I also found that like, I really like when you talk of my Biggest Loser experience, it’s been interesting because, you know, we did the shopping for them. We grocery shopped, but then they had to cook on their own. So, it was interesting. Like the muscle they never had to work was like driving past the drive-through, you know, skipping the candy aisle. And I think this is a really good muscle. Everyone can work right now. When you go and you’re quarantining and we all are hoarding a little bit, we all have that weird scarcity feeling like, let me just get an extra roll of, you know, a couple of rolls of toilet paper. Let me just get a couple extra steaks for the freezer. Let me just get, you know, we’re all being a little bit more careful as we should be. [MELISSA]: Yeah. [JEN]: And so what’s going in, I’ve got ice cream in my fridge, I bought M&Ms and I’m thinking it’ll be fine just in case I never eat another M&M again, this is the bag I have, but like I eat it all in two days. And so, you know, what I’m realizing is this is great practice for my muscle. Like, “Hey, be thoughtful of what’s going in your cart.” Is what’s going in my cart going to fuel me or take me on a spiral with my energy, with my, like, you know, I even have a bag of peanut M&Ms. Like, it’s going to mess up my ability to sleep because I’m like obviously doing it at night, watching a movie or something, or I’m snacking on it throughout the day. So, I’m not really hungry for my meals. And then I can’t figure out why the next day, like, “Gosh, I’m a groggy. What the heck? This quarantine sucks. Well, no, I put a super high amount of sugar in my body. I didn’t get enough good fuel and then I slept poorly.” So, you know what you’re choosing to put in your grocery cart when you have the chance to go, is going to affect you through your day and your weeks and your mental perception of how you’re feeling. And so, that’s — Oh, go ahead. [MELISSA]: No, I was like, I think what you’re saying is like, so spot on for people, especially moms to hear because, and I liked that you brought that up, that you guys did the shopping, but they did the cooking, whereas like moms and our listeners, like we got to do it all. And a lot of times when people work with me, they’re like, “What’s your meal plan? Just give me the list. You know, what’s your meal plan and let me follow your meal plan.” And I’m with you. Like, I love the bumper bowling analogy and I’m like, “Girl, I’m going to guide you, but I’m not going to give you this list of everything to eat for the next, you know, six weeks breakfast, lunch, and dinner.” I’m like, “What are you going to learn?” [JEN]: They won’t learn. And that’s the thing. I mean, that’s why even like, when I do my carb cycling challenges, they’re like, “Well, what do we eat every day?” I go, “Hey, you, I gave you the macros. You get the party now. You have to take those sets and reps.” And that’s why, you know, going back to Loser, like, it’s funny, you were saying, “Yeah, it was easier on them. They didn’t have to shop.” But I go, “Yeah. But why do so many of them put the weight back on?” Because they don’t have to do the reps. They don’t have to be forced to go work that mental muscle of saying no to the candy aisle. They don’t have, like, I mean, the amount of times I’ve opened like a bag of chips while I’m still shopping at the grocery store, it’s like, because I went hungry. You know what I mean? [MELISSA]: Yes, so guilty of that. [JEN]: I mean, and I’m like, “I paid for it, everyone.” Like I bring the empty bag and I’m like, “You, do you have a trash? Because I ate it all. there you go.” But you know, they don’t get to work those muscles. And because of that, they’re thrust back into a situation where they’re a full-time parent, full time employee, full time spouse and now the stress going from place to place. And they’re like, “Oh, I just,” and they succumb to those cravings or those default behaviors that they never had to outsmart or not work because everything was done for them. So, in a way I love this challenge for, I mean, I’m so sad for the death and the sickness and the torment it’s putting families through, but you can use this. I mean, talk about sets and reps in a way we’re never going to get back. Like use it, get stronger. It’s just like putting a little bit more weight on your bar or a little bit more weight on your dumbbell and getting stronger through it. [MELISSA]: Yeah. We have a hashtag right now that I’m using in my group, it’s Post-Pandemic Body. And I’m like, “You guys, you get to pick your PPB. Like how you come out of this is totally up to you. It’s not that, you know, dictating who you’re going to be. That doesn’t get to decide. You get to decide.” And, I appreciate all the funny memes and you know, like, “Oh, this was going into quarantine. This is me coming out.” Like I get it. Ha ha ha but I have to warn a lot of people and my friends and stuff and I’m like, it’s only funny, so long. And if you’re feeding your mind that all the time, and you’re scrolling through Facebook and Instagram and that’s all you’re reading and you’re laughing at it, it’s going to make you feel like it’s okay. Like, “It’s funny. I put on 20 pounds, ha ha.” [JEN]: Now, I’d say, “You dude, it’s not funny because here’s the thing.” Number one sickness in our country is heart disease, right? Number one, mental illness is anxiety and depression. And so, it’s like, these are working hand in hand. Because I agree with you. It’s not funny. What’s going to happen is people are going to come out of this worse instead of better. And I’m worried about how people are going to dig themselves out of these holes since they’re basically feeding the wrong mental muscle groups in this whole process. [MELISSA]: Yeah. And you know, one thing that I think we can kind of relate this to and adapting to a new norm and like the Biggest Loser and what people realistically do is, you know, those people that do like the boot camps and the challenges and like the six-week thing and their whole life revolves around this whole like six-week thing or like going on the show with Biggest Loser and stuff. And this is like all they know, and it’s not really-real world. It’s just like, “We’re going to go hardcore for six weeks. And I got to lose 30 pounds in six weeks. And then I get all my money back and, or I’m going to go on the show and I’m going to do all this work and then I’m going to leave and like,” or, “I’m in lockdown. Okay, this is just going to be what I am.” And people don’t learn how to adapt and then come back out of it, like, okay. You know, because it’s not living their real life in conjunction with this. Everyone wants like this quick fix. And everyone’s like, “Well, I’m just going to like work at home right now and, or not do anything, then I’ll be fine later.” Like people don’t learn that balance of, “Okay, let’s pivot. This is my life now.” [JEN]: Well, you know, it’s interesting as you were talking, I was thinking, man, it’s like often, the fear of how something might turn out kind of overshadows someone’s willingness to start. They’re like, “I don’t know how this is going to turn out. So, man, I’m afraid to even start. Like why try and I’m probably going to fail?” [MELISSA]: Yes. [JEN]: And I just thought, you know, we can use this to our advantage. I think, “Okay, let’s play out this story. I’m me. I’m going to say spirit. I’m going to do pizzas and arm stretch too. So, I’m going to just do the things I wouldn’t normally do or vice versa. I’m going to use this time and make it my bootcamp. Like I plan out the ending, I think, okay, if I do that, what is that result? 20-pound weight gain emotionally disconnected from my own physical and happiness and health? No, I’m not going to do that.” And then the other side is, “Oh my gosh, I built a machine that I can’t sustain. I don’t want to do that either.” So, I really encourage everyone to like start with the end in mind, not your results, but like what life are you building and is this one you can sustain? Because whether you’re a heifer like me and you’re doing the DiGiornos or you’ve let your food camp sully, that’s crushing, I want you to make sure you’re creating and using this time, forming a time and a system for you, that’s going to actually bridge into you, as Melissa just said, real life, like sustained living. And therefore, you use this very proactively versus just, “Oh, this is an anomaly. I’m just going to let what happens stay here,” because it will carry with you no matter, like this, good or bad it’s going to affect you. [MELISSA]: Right. Sustainability is so huge. It’s, oh, it just is something that I wish everyone would take into consideration before starting a journey because everyone just wants that quick fix, you know? And I’m like, — [JEN]: Yeah, well, but I got to tell you what, sometimes I get the opposite every once in a while. I mean, I already kind of joked earlier. I won the genetic lottery. If I showed you a picture of my parents in the seventies, you’d be like, “Oh now, I get it.” You know, like, but it’s a daily choice to me to take care of my body so I don’t blow my genetics. [MELISSA]: Exactly. [JEN]: And I will tell you that oh, what was my train of thought? You said something. Oh gosh, Melissa, what was it? What were you just saying? [MELISSA]: Sustainability. And you said that there are some times — [JEN]: Thank you. Every once in a while, I cry. Like, and when, I would say like once a quarter, this is not weekly for me or anything, but like, I go, “Oh my God, I have to do this forever.” Like, “Oh my God, like, I’m 37, so I got to like double this?” And I’ll get overwhelmed with how long I’ve got to keep it going. And I’ll let that overwhelm me for about five minutes and then I like come back to planet earth and I think, “Oh, okay, glad that’s out of your system. Just do today. Do what I know I am proud of today.” Because that’s the thing if you have, you’re results-oriented and all the things you’re doing on your day to day, are, “If I eat this, I’ll get fat. If I do this, I’ll get thin,” you’re not going to make it. It’s mentally too taxing. And for me, I go, “Am I proud? Do I lay my head down and think I’m proud of the way I feel about myself, cared for my family members and, showed up with my purpose on this planet?” Then I’m going to be good. And if I stay in the day, it really tends to help me. [MELISSA]: Yeah. It’s so funny you bring that up. My daughter, I have a 14-year-old. I had her really young and I been working out with her a lot and just, I’m like, “Hey, you’re not in volleyball season. Like let’s lift let’s, you know, let’s start teaching you some more and learning more. Let’s use this opportunity.” So, she’s been in the gym with me a lot here at our house. And she asked me the other day, she’s like, “So how long are you going to lift for?” And I’m like, “I don’t know. I probably got like 45 minutes left here.” And she’s like, “No, no, no. Like you’re 45.” And she’s like, “No, no, no. Like how long are you going to do this for?” And I just sat there and I was like, that’s, it’s so cute that she asked me this and at the same time, like, does she really think that there’s an end to it? You know, I just had to sit and answer that very carefully. So, I love that you have these thoughts to because I was like, “I’m going to be doing this forever.” And I said, “I’m never going to stop.” And she’s like, “Even when you’re like old? I’m like, “Yeah. And I’m not going to look old because I’m going to keep doing it.” And I think her mind was blown and then at the same time I was like, “Oh shit. I got to do this the rest of my life.” [JEN]: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s interesting. I mean, really truly weight training is ageless. My father will be 75 and my mother will be 72 this year and they both still weight train. And it’s what we do in our thirties and forties that really show up in our fifties and sixties and to keep it going is really important. And you know, I just, I love that she’s already thinking that way. And it’s kind of funny how it came up in your conversation so naturally, but it really, it’s, I think that the difference for you, Melissa, and when I wanted to ask you, actually, because I was reading up on you before our podcast as well is you and I are both women that started younger in activity. You started doing, I believe a form of karate? [MELISSA]: Yeah, yeah. [JEN]: I can’t say, what’s the form that you learned? [MELISSA]: Tai Shin Kai as a child. [JEN]: Tai Shin Kai? Okay. So, you know, you’re a young woman, I’m a young girl, you know, young girls, really, we both started young. I started gymnastics and my dad had me lifting weights a little bit and it was the same for you. So, movement was a part of our, just a part of our DNA. I think it’s, you know, biological level, I think, but also in our mindset, how are you helping people that, you know, didn’t work out, haven’t worked out, they’re either single like me or moms and they like really want to get started. Like how do you start to help them find their own grip on movement when it was introduced maybe 30 or 20 years after you learned about it? [MELISSA]: Right? So, when women start off, I always tell them like, it’s never too late. One, let’s just clear that up. Like, I don’t care how old you are. I don’t care what your history is. Like it’s never too late. And I also teach them to look at the day that they decide, you know like really decide, like you’ve had your fucking rock bottom moment and you’re like, “I can’t do this anymore. My life needs to change.” Like it’s either, you know, I’m becoming diabetic or my heart, or like my doctor’s like, no, you’re going to die tomorrow. Whatever that moment is, I said, that’s how many days old you are. So, don’t be mad at yourself when you’re six months into this journey and you don’t look like, you know, Karen over there next to you in spin class. I say, you’re a six-month-old baby. [JEN]: What a great point. [MELISSA]: I’m like, “What do you expect from a six-month-old baby?” But six months in like the fitness world and like compared to everything else like, “Oh, I know someone who lost 50 pounds in six weeks and here I am six months into it and I’ve only lost 20.” And I’m like, “You have to think of it as, like whatever day you are, you’re two weeks old. You’re four weeks old. You’re six months old.” And that really helps them change and look at it differently. Like, doesn’t matter what your history is. Doesn’t matter what you came from. This is the day that you decided and that’s how old you are. And that takes pressure off from the women who I’ve been working with for two or three years now and they still have those times where they dip and then they come up and I’m like, “We all got the frozen pizza in the freezer.” You know, like it happens. [JEN]: But you know what, don’t we all, like you have dibs. I have dibs. So, the thing that I don’t think people realize that just because I’ve been on Biggest Loser and you know, you still have six-pack after three girls, like it’s days that were hard, that were low, that were tough, that we chose to choose ourselves. And just because I already ate my stockpiled frozen pizzas for Corona, doesn’t make me a failure. I did that with my eyes open. I said, “I’m making this choice, but tomorrow I will get up and instead of my 20 minutes, I’m going 40 minutes.” And it’s not to erase the pizza, but it’s to kind of, you know, it’s like, “Hey, you can have both, but you’ve got to choose health alongside like all the yum yum,” whatever you want to call it. So, and also, I think the other side is really giving yourself time down. Like I was actually listening to this podcast the girl’s name is Alyssa [inaudible 00:40:37] and she talks about her, it’s like you’re in, we have like our clock that’s, oh gosh, circadian rhythm. And then she talks about our, it looks spelled like infrared, but it’s like infraired or something; is women, men do not have this. Women have this and it’s based on our, when we are still bleeding, when we still have our menstrual cycles, there’s these four phases within those 28 to 30 days that depict like how we’re feeling, where our metabolism is higher, where it’s lower, where actually, when you’re, I believe it’s in your lunar phase. [MELISSA]: Yes. Your lunar phase. [JEN]: Oh, okay, am I right? [MELISSA]: Yeah, totally. [JEN]: Because I’m ingrained in it. Okay. Thank you. You made me feel better and where your metabolism is actually slower because it’s nurturing and it’s getting ready to actually fill your bleed week and how that people are doing like hit training. But because your metabolism is slower and with where your body is at and actually causes you to like hold onto fat and break down your muscle tissue. And then women are like, “What the heck? I’m gaining weight and I’m training my ass off.” Like, well, because you’re not nurturing your body when it needs to be nurtured, even like today, like this is day four of my period and I’m like, “What the heck, man. I should be past the hard part. And I took, I mean, I set my alarm for 6:30. I had all these things I wanted to do before our podcast. I couldn’t get myself up. I couldn’t get myself going. The pain was brutal. I mean, like, I will not go through the TMI that was happening all morning. And I just was like, “Okay, you’re going to walk slow. You’re going to have a bigger breakfast because you need it and you’re just going to be slow and you’ll handle everything,” like, but later, I will tell you like a year, two years ago I would have forced myself to be ready and shame myself for like, what’s wrong with you. And it’s like, we just, as women need to like nourish where we’re feeling and like, you know, you and I, as coaches often talk about like, well, rest days are important, but rest days, not just from training, like three on one off, two on two off. It’s truly like today was a bigger workout day for me and I’m like, “Oh, I’m just going to have to shift it because my body is saying no today.” And thank God I’m at a point only took me 37 years. I’m more in tune with my body and I think that women that become moms have like a little bit of a head start when you’re growing a human. Like, you know, I’m fascinated by what you guys feel, all the nuances like from, you know, just everything just as, it’s such a magic trick. Man, like, I still don’t get how, even though I understand. [MELISSA]: It is. [JEN]: And so, I’m getting like this, you know, and then going through the birth, going through healing, going through, picking up your first weight after your delivery. And so, it’s just, there’s so much that, I mean, obviously, I mean, I’ve been talking to like, I don’t know, three minutes without taking a breath and I hope it makes sense, but there’s just so much to what the care can and could look like if you’re just connected to yourself. [MELISSA]: Yeah, and to be able to sustain it and that, to keep, to sustain that life and to learn and grow, like, that’s going to take a long time and you have to accept that, like, there’s going to be a first step. There’s never going to be an end step. Like don’t think of the last step, and that’s going to take time and learning. [JEN]: That’s a great point. Well, you know what I thought of too, you just have to make your own rules because what you go through and what you share with all the women you’ve been mentoring and that have mentored you, I really think that as a coach, we’re, you know, who we’re coaching is coaching us as well. We learn so much from our people and I’d be lost without them. And I realized that I had to make my own rules around, you know, when I would slip up when, what are the nights that I would have the frozen pizza, what are the days I would go out to dinners? And, you know, we’ve all been there where you’ve been like on track, you’re dialed, and then somehow you look down and you, “Who ate all the food off my plate? When did I, did I just like pass out and like crush a half a pizza? Clearly, I like pizza. That’s my go-to, but, you know, and I realized, I’m like, “Okay, what are my benchmarks?” So, if anyone listening, like, if you’re at home and you’re like, “Gosh, at four o’clock every day, I just have this thing and I cave and I go to the pantry and dah, dah, dah.” Okay. Look at why have you not eaten since noon. Are you low on water? What are the rules that you need to create? Be like, “Okay, instead of waiting to four, I have to have a snack at two o’clock. It has to be a vegetable and I have to have a glass of water with it.” I guarantee you, if you map out around what your defaults are, you will, not outsmart them, but you’ll create new patterns for yourself. And like, my favorite example was like, I was going to this big dinner and I decided, I was really on track, I was eating really well and I go there and like dinner took forever. So, I ended up having like two martinis and a glass of wine. And I picked up my food on the menu before I went, but I ended up with like an order of mozzarella sticks and some hamburger. And then I remember crying on the way home in my Uber, just like, “You idiot, you’re a coach. Why can’t you do this?” Like, I was literally filming the Biggest Loser at the time. And I’m like, “Why can’t you do this? You’re a liar. You’re a fraud.” And then I had the, like the other voice in my head had to say, “Stop. Observe what happened.” I’m like, “Oh, I worked a long, crazy shift and I came bombing from set to get to dinner. So, I came on a very empty stomach and I had three drinks, by the way, two of Martinez, that’s like five drinks, three drinks before dinner was served. So, what were my rules?” I’m never allowed to go to dinner hungry that whether it’s at someone’s house dinner I’m making or a dinner I go out to, and then I’m only allowed one cocktail before dinner. Those are my two rules. And let me tell you, Melissa, when I stick to that, I never have a binge crisis. I never crushed the breadbasket ever. When I ignore my rules, I pass out and who ate all my food. [MELISSA]: It’s gone down. [JEN]: Yeah, it’s going down. But now I feel empowered. I’m not looking at what, Melissa, what do you do? Susie, what do you do? I don’t care what anyone does. This is what Jen does and it’s really worked. That’s why I say, make your own rules in this experience right now. What are your rules for yourself? And it will, it’s so empowering. It’s so freeing and like it’s, and it works. Like the best part about it is it works. [MELISSA]: Yes. [JEN]: Hallelujah. [MELISSA]: Oh, that’s I always like to wrap things up and the last thing we talk about is like what’s your best tip? You know, super cheesy, but — [JEN]: Oh, that’s it. [MELISSA]: That’s it. Like, you nailed it, gave it to us. I didn’t even have to ask. I love it. But you know, as you’re talking, I’m like, thinking of all these things, like, “Holy shit. Like, yeah, that’s exactly right. Like that’s what I do.” And you have to. And like right now I hate cardio. Like, that’s one of the reasons why I do martial arts and stuff because like my master gets to yell at me. I don’t have to think about it. If he’s like do a hundred burpees like I have to do it. Like I can’t complain. And right now, it’s all on me. And I have to do cardio three days a week. Just to make sure you do it, Melissa. You know, like get it done. But that’s a rule that I’m like sticking by right now. I might not like it, but it’s keeping me out of trouble. It’s keeping my heart and lungs condition. And when this is over, I’m going to be so glad that I didn’t let my lungs deteriorate, my heart rate and be like, “Oh my God, you know?” [JEN]: You know what you should do and once I tried this. Like I have made, like I share your loathing of cardio. I bet a lot of people are smiling and nodding. I will throw a no-cardio party sometime soon when we’re out but I make that sweat time a treat for me now, because that’s when I get to listen to a new podcast. I only let myself listen to a podcast or it could be a carpool karaoke. I don’t care what it is. I only let myself do it if I’m outside on a trail, walking or running. And so, now I’ve set up like a reward, a treat and something I really love doing next to something that is a struggle for me. And now, I mean, it’s a great distraction, by the way. Like I pee my pants watching like Bruno Mars with James Cordon, but like but it gets me to go in and move and it ties something I love with something that I used to hate. But now, because I’m doing it more consistently, I’m getting better at, and guys, there’s nothing more powerful and more motivating than self-pride. That’s the greatest tool that we could ever give you. Melissa and I don’t do this for us. We do it so you can feel what we’ve been working on ourselves and you can experience that for yourself. [MELISSA]: Amen. We’re just carving back some of other learning curve time just to get there faster, but no, that’s awesome. I so appreciate the saving something, you know, because that’s really important to connect good feelings and thoughts and emotions with fitness. [JEN]: Yes, totally. And it wasn’t always this way. I’m telling you. It’s taken time, but well said there. [MELISSA]: Yes, we are here. Oh, I love it. Oh my God, Jen, I feel like we could talk forever and ever, and ever. Like, it’s been such a treat to have you on. Now tell us, you have a book out, tell us about that really quick; the title, where can we find it. Just give us a bit. [JEN]: It’s really easy. It’s unpacked paperback, now for like 11 bucks on Amazon. It’s called Diet Right for Your Personality Type. And essentially, you have to look at the greatest asset of information you have. The greatest database you have is you. It’s your personality, it’s your familiarity and function around food. And oftentimes we say, well, you have to eat this exact way. And people need freedom. That’s why I, you know, and I basically in the book, there are five personality types that I give you five prescribed eating plans with. And it’s an absolute, it’s a blast. And it ties in really well with my carb cycling because I assign macros for you that you can eat in any way you want because you have to know where your potholes are and where that information takes you. And that’s why with Diet Right, it’s a great book. It’s a great resource. And there’s just tons of great recipes in it. So, that’s a lot of fun and I mean, my favorite part of the book, it’s almost like a, I mean, there’s a quiz in there, so you really get to understand parts of you and then you really get to read into your personality and you become a student of yourself, which is really what the key is for any kind of health and weight loss success. So, that’s the book. And like I said, Amazon’s really easy, but it’s everywhere. And I also, I’ve got like, you know grocery lists on my website that you can print off and take the store with you. So, I kind of dummy-proof it so you can stay on track because I know it’s easy to want to wander the aisles and you know, all that jazz and we’re all trying to get in and out quickly. So, and then everything’s just on my website, widerstrong.com. I know very clever, Wider, W I D E R S T R O N G (dot) com. And that’s where you can find like workout programs and you know, my carb cycling challenges. I’ll be launching one here pretty soon and then I have an app that I’m launching here as well, very soon. Just really adapting it to the times and making sure I can be as greatest services I can to everyone that needs support. [MELISSA]: Oh my God, I love it. I feel like your book is going to just piggyback right along with this podcast. So, you guys get the book Diet Right for Your Personality Type, check it out, check out her website, and if you missed it and you’re like, “Darn, I don’t have a pen and I’m in the car listening to this,” everything’s in the show notes. So, don’t panic. [JEN]: Oh, thanks for doing that. And I’m putting tons of free content on my Instagram. It’s just my full name, Jen Widerstrom. Melissa and I are very kindred where we just want to be a resource of not just, you know, training, but like hope and camaraderie and just as much as I can do to be there for everybody. It’s all there. [MELISSA]: Yes. Oh, thank you. I feel like I’ve found my sister that I lost, like birth. [JEN]: Thank you. [MELISSA]: So awesome. Oh Jen, yes, thank you again for being on here and being our guest. We just love you and support you and everyone check her out if you haven’t yet, because you are definitely missing out. But I hope to have you on again. I hope you come on again. [JEN]: Oh my God. Well, I’d like to, I’ve like monopolized your podcast. I mean, I feel like I just went like bruuuuh, so thanks for being so generous with me. It means a lot. [MELISSA]: No, it’s perfect. It was absolutely perfect. I know everyone’s going to love it. You guys check out the show notes in case you missed anything. And Jen, I cannot wait to have you back on again and thank you for sharing everything like literally priceless podcast. Priceless. [JEN]: It was my pleasure. Thank you. [MELISSA]: Oh, thank you and thanks everyone for listening. Until next time you guys stay healthy, stay safe, stay strong. If you’re ready to become a bomb mom, join my free course over at www.melissavogelfitness.com/course. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, nutritional, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.